Something that I've been mulling over in my head. Why not just split the country into three separate individual countries, one for the Shiite's, one for the Kurds, and one for the Sunni's? To me it makes more sense than trying to hold them together when they pretty much hate each other.

I'll give some thought to the rest of your thing later.

~Luca

Loca,

I went to one of those online 8 ball pages and fired your questions in- these are the unaltered answers as per the almight 8 ball-

What exactly is our mission in Iraq?  most likely

Are we in the middle of a civil war?  it is certain

Is success when there is minimal violence in Iraq?  signs point to yes

Is success when we convince two groups that don't want to compromise to compromise? outlook not so good

How do we force them to compromise with a miliary action? my sources say no 

Will there ever be a united Iraq? you may rely on it

Is reconcilliation between the Shiites and Sunnis even possible? concentrate and ask again

What about the Kurds? don't count on it

What about all the Iraqi refugees? my reply is no

When will the Iraqis have power more than eight hours a day? my sources say no 

If our soldiers leave, will the insurgents lay down arms? outlook not so good

If our soldiers leave, will the foreign terrorists leave? you may rely on it

Is it really about oil? outlook not so good

Are benchmarks met when legislation is passed or when the legislation is actually implemented?  concentrate and ask again

Are we overextending our military?  very doubtful

Are we treating our returning veterans right? reply hazy, try again

Are we treating our active duty soldiers right? it is certain

Should American citizens opinion weigh on the decision to remain in Iraq? don't count on it

Should Iraqi citizens opinion weigh on the decision to remain in Iraq? signs point to yes

I've seen that suggestion before.  The problem then becomes the fighting over who gets what chunk, who gets the best piece of the pie so to speak. 

If it were only that simple.   I do hope Hillary gets elected but I think there are no easy answers in Iraq.

Thanks, artyism.  Very helpful -

No oil in the Sunni predominate area. I think the Shiite would (and still may) become an extension of Iran. Where's a good dictator when you need one.

You see, that's the sort of statement that makes me think there is still hope for the Democrats to be something other than a party of violent nutters.

Don't count on it. Most Shiites of Iraq are fairly secular. They did fight for Saddam against Iran, don't forget. The current Iraqi government, which is largely Shiites wants the country to remain together. THAT is pretty much the Shiite majority position.

And the Kurds already have their own state in all but name.

Let me give a try:

What exactly is our mission in Iraq? 

As I understand it it's helping or causing the transition of a fascist and racist dictatorship into a functioning democracy a la Germany and Japan.

Are we in the middle of a civil war? 

Not really. For middle-eastern standars Iraq is in a normal situation. They killed each other before the invasion and they continue. For western standards, it's a civil war.

Is success when there is minimal violence in Iraq? 

Not necessarily. "Minimal violence" can also mean that all the unwanted people have been exterminated.

Is success when we convince two groups that don't want to compromise to compromise? 

We don't have to. The two groups (Sunnis and Shiites) really have no business fighting. It's about turning them against the self-declared masters. It's working well in the north-west. But Iran has too much influence on the Shiites.

How do we force them to compromise with a miliary action? 

We don't. But military action will make their leaders less powerful.

Will there ever be a united Iraq? 

Perhaps. I don't think it's important.

Is reconcilliation between the Shiites and Sunnis even possible? 

No, not using the current definitions of the terms. We have to stop acknowledging their self-proclaimed leaders and we have to stop accepting their definitions of Islam.

What about the Kurds? 

They are doing fine. I think they need money and some confidence that America won't abandon them.

What about all the Iraqi refugees? 

The Arab world didn't have a problem with Jewish refugees, they shouldn't have a problem with Arab refugees. Maybe they will return once Iraq is a bit safer. The Christians can apparently come to Germany, but that will play into the Islamists hands. Muslims in Baghdad asked the Christians to return. America will have to embrace those Muslims and reject their self-proclaimed leaders, as I said before.

When will the Iraqis have power more than eight hours a day? 

As soon as either the terrorists stop attacking power grids or the US public don't threaten to vote for a withdrawal of all troops. The terrorists will only have the power to attack power grids of the Iraqis think that they might win. But if we rebuild everything and show to the Iraqis how useless the terrosists are, we should be fine.

If our soldiers leave, will the insurgents lay down arms? 

Of course. Don't you know that all wars end once the Americans withdraw?

I am kidding. Usually, the wars get worse when the Americans withdraw. The reason Sunnis and Shiites have been fighting each other for over a thousand years has, incidentally, nothing to do with America.

If our soldiers leave, will the foreign terrorists leave? 

No. They will take over the country and stay, like in Afghanistan. Western liberals might believe the "liberation" story, but the terrorists know full well, why they attack Iraq.

Is it really about oil? 

No. Oil is not very valuable, as a quick look at wealth and countries should show.

Are benchmarks met when legislation is passed or when the legislation is actually implemented? 

I don't know.

Are we overextending our military? 

I doubt it. You are fighting a huge war and yet you keep a peace-time economy running. If the war wasn't on the news, you wouldn't even notice it.

Are we treating our returning veterans right? 

No.

Are we treating our active duty soldiers right?

No.

Should American citizens opinion weigh on the decision to remain in Iraq?

Yes. American citizens should make the decision. But public opinion doesn't make the decision more right or more wrong. It's MORALLY WRONG to abandon friends and allies, no matter how popular such betrayal might be.

Should Iraqi citizens opinion weigh on the decision to remain in Iraq?

Yes. And they have decided. They want the US to stay.

Because other regional powers simply won't abide by an official Kurdistan backed by the power of the U.S. Turkey will unilaterally invade northern Iraq before allowing an officlaly recognized Kurdish state on their border.

See this map for what the Kurds say is Kurdistan and pay attention to how much of it isn't in Iraq.

I have to disagree. Many Shiites did fight for Saddam... with their families held accountable for any desertion (Desertion was still a big problem for Iraq). Here's an interesting link for you Link. Also clerics like Sadr practicaly live in Iran and recieve most of their weapons and trainning there. While I think you are correct in saying the current government wants to country whole, I don't think we know what is on the Shiite majorities minds, too early to discount the power of religion, as many want an Islamic republic. The Sunni's get a patch of desert, so I know they want Iraq to stay together. The Kurd would leave tomorrow if they could.

Double post (removed)