there are a number of ways in which our ongoing campaign in iraq is similar to our past involvement in vietnam. saddest and most regrettable of them all is this: we need never intervened militarily in either. in both cases, we were blinded by arrogance, foolishness and reckless disregard for those principles we claim to so stalwartly support.

as our collective vision began clearing, one thing became increasingly obvious: getting in is far too easy; getting out is a whole other story.

Iraq would darned sight be like Vietnam if some people had their way.  (The Clueless One being a big example).

And this is still not clear:

I think it's clear that there will not be a military victory in Iraq.

... and is a big part of the reason that Iraq is like Vietnam.

People keep hearing bad news from those that desperately want Iraq to be a failure.  That keeps feeding upon itself, fueling continued worries that we're losing, that Iraq is a failure, etc.

Never mind that we have continued to fight there with our hands tied behind our backs, restricted from using any and all techniques that might be required to win.  Some of those techniques being ones that some people consider inhumane.

There are problems in the political system in Iraq, but we have been making progress there.  Even such liberal luminaries as Hillary Clinton have had to admit that lately.  Of course it doesn't stop the bleeting of the Bush is evil and to blame for everything people.

I have to agree that the war is more and more like Vietnam. While the death tolls are not even close, that still doesn't change the fact that things are going to well. I still believe in finishing what we started, because of this I think we can only get this done if we just go ahead and take out Al-qaeda in Pakistan and push harder with less fear of hitting other people. We are in a situation where collateral damage is the only option besides putting our tails between our legs and going home.

Terp, how do you think we can have a military victory in Iraq. Do you think we can kill and disarm all of the insurgents? There are always more to take the place of the ones that we've killed. I'm not saying that our military isn't doing a good job. I'm saying we've sent them to do an impossible job. The victory in Iraq will be when the government is able to include ALL Iraquis through political compromise.

more later someone's knocking on my door

I think in your mind it's impossible because you are looking for a very unlikely scenario. It's not possible to kill or disarm all insurgents, that is not even realistic. But you can break their spirit and push them back and bring their numbers down. Maybe you should take the insurgents perspective for a change and apply it to us. They probably see this as breaking us down, which by your replies is working, they are breaking our spirit to fight and finish the job and they are willing to lose as many of their fellow insurgents as they have to to obtain victory. They are making us lose our will, they have already taken our belief that we can finish this.

What we need to do is turn the tables on them and break their spirit, take away their belief of a victory, take away their will to fight. This constant "we are never gonna win" attitude we show day after day in blogs like this one, in the Media and from our own Gov't gives them the power they need to keep fighting. They are not beating us, we are beating ourselves for losing the will to finish the job and the belief that we can accomplish our mission. We have convinced ourselves to believe that a mission is only worth doing if no one dies and results are always good and immediate. We ignore the past where we celebrate the lives of those who died for our freedoms and expect to change the world by saying "please" and "here have some money". If we are not willing to make sacrifices for the bettering of our country then we are not the nation we claim to be.

The problem with this wat, in my opinion, is that none of the politicians seem to WANT an end to this war. It's given the GOP a platform to show what 30 years of peace time weapons buildup gets you, and even as the public calls for an end to this war, the Dems are bandying about the idea of a draft, oddly enough for the precise reasons they OPPOSED a draft in the 60's.

Ain't noone around here that cares what the PEOPLE want!

I wish i would have joined the Armed forces. I wish I could fight for what is right. I would lay my life if it meant a better future for my family. I'd take a bullet for my country if it meant we could make a difference not only in the US but around the World. Without sacrifice we would not be were we are today and we will never have a future. Death is a part of life and if someone is willing to give it up for the sake of their people then I say we let them do their job.

I wish i would have joined the Armed forces

You probably still can. I think they raised maximum enlistment age to 40 or something like that.

Ain't noone around here that cares what the PEOPLE want!

That's why we get to vote. You can vote for the person you think cares about what you want.

the Dems are bandying about the idea of a draft, oddly enough for the precise reasons they OPPOSED a draft in the 60's.

Where have you seen this? I haven't been able to find anything. I think our armed forces are stretched thin but the volunteer army has worked since '73. I don't see any reason to reinstate the draft now.

What we need to do is turn the tables on them and break their spirit, take away their belief of a victory, take away their will to fight.

So we spend billions to keep our soldiers there with targets on their back waiting for the insurgents spirits to break?

we either do that or bring them home save billions and paint targets on their backs here where they cannot act.

It's not about age, it's about not physically being about to do it. I have ankle problems and some vision problems that would keep me from doing what i would truly want to do, be a pilot.



Well Loca, this has been discussed several times on this site with news articles that showed some Democrats wanting to reinstate the draft. It's one of Col gene's favorite topics I might add.

Here, I'm nice enough to provide a couple of links for you. You really need to try harder Loca, google can be your best friend.

WWW Link

WWW Link



Well if that is what you think we are doing, hey, who am I to convince you otherwise. I guess it never occurred to you that a soldier is a person who joined or was drafted for the military forces, would be trained in multiple forms of combat, would be trained to kill and would have to understand that in the process of fighting they might be killed. But last I checked the insurgents are not killing our soldiers by the dozens every minute of the day. It's a lot of hard work for them just to get 1 or 2. You really need to get your head out of Col genes butt and realize that while our soldiers may have one hand somewhat tied behind their backs, they are not sitting ducks in this war. I was shown that by some here. I think is anything it is insulting to insinuate this idea of a target. I made that mistake before and admit to have been wrong about it.

While, like I said in my post above, I wouldn't go as far as saying them having targets on their back, I could say that if we do bring them home now and leave the job unfinished, we all might as well paint targets on our backs cause we will definitely be in the terrorist sights once they see how weak we are. Because you may not agree with us looking weak if we leave, I can guarantee you the terrorist will say otherwise.

The Rangel thing on the draft is old. One was from 2003 and the other was 2006. There is no current plan by Democrats to start a draft. I did google it btw.

You really need to get your head out of Col genes butt

I guarantee that is somewhere my head has never been remotely close to.

we either do that or bring them home save billions and paint targets on their backs here where they cannot act.

So all the insurgents from Iraq will be coming to the U.S. to get our soldiers. That's just ludicrous.

leave the job unfinished, we all might as well paint targets on our backs cause we will definitely be in the terrorist sights once they see how weak we are. Because you may not agree with us looking weak if we leave, I can guarantee you the terrorist will say otherwise.

Do you guys really believe this? Talk about fear mongering and scare tactics. The we fight them there or fight them at home argument doens't hold water. Al Queda wasn't even in Iraq when we started this war.

was is what is the difference.

You see what you want to see.  It is apparent that no answer is going to suffice by this statement here:

What bothers me is the simililarity to the fact that Nixon knew the war was lost but stayed and let more and more of our soldiers die for political reasons.

We had been entangled in the mess for 8 years before he came upon the scene, and he ended it in less than 4, yet it is all his fault and all about his politics.

Freedom is not a gift from God, although today most seem to think that it is.  Tomorrow, they will not have to think for themselves as their ownerrs will do all their thinking for them.

 

The former (thanks to the military) leader of al qaeda in Iraq sought sanctuary and medical treatment in Baghdad before the war was started. 





Islamic terrorists are emboldened by weakness.  This was proved many years ago when Clinton pulled out of Somalia, which showed bin laden that he could defeat U.S. forces.  We will never defeat islamic terrorism with weakness, that's for sure.

"We have seen in the last decade the decline of the American government and the weakness of the American soldier who is ready to wage Cold Wars and unprepared to fight long wars. This was proven in Beirut when the Marines fled after two explosions. It also proves they can run in less than 24 hours, and this was also repeated in Somalia" - bin laden